Notes from AWG AARO workshop
Tuesday, April 15th, 2014, 6-8pm at Espace MLK
I. Introduction.Jessica welcomed all participants and introduced panel members.
• Lucy Laederich, president of AARO
• Kathleen de Carbuccia
• Tim Ramier
• John Fredenberger
Each
panel member then proceeded to present the issues they're concerned
with, answer questions sent in prior to the workshop by attendees, and
then opened the floor to questions where time permitted.
II. Lucy Laederich, background information on
AARO (Association of Americans Resident Overseas). • AARO is a global, member-based organization formed in 1973 to advocate for overseas Americans.
• AARO was instrumental in getting the vote for overseas Americans
in 1975 and other various changes in citizenship laws over the years.
Brochures available about AARO's work (see website:
aaro.org).
• AARO members make regular trips to Washington DC to lobby for
Americans. AARO has worked on several issues over the years (social
security, voting, citizenship, banking), but currently the main issue is
taxes, and recent legislation affecting American women living abroad
with foreign spouses and partners. (Women finding themselves vulnerable
because they are deciding to be removed from joint accounts to avoid
reporting to the US govt.)
• Lucy encouraged AWG members to join AARO, and reminded us that
whether we decide to join or not, AARO is there to support us. AARO has
good relations with a number of offices in DC and will do their best to
take our story where it should be heard.
• Lucy reminded us that it's very easy to register to vote.
Advice from AARO: Vote in federal elections. You have protections under
the UOCAVA (Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act). If
you vote in local elections, you lose those protections. (California is
the worst state. If you vote local in Californian they'll come after
you for taxes and jury duty.)
III. Kathleen de Carbuccia,
Citizenship. • Rules about
citizenship for children born abroad: Can become citizens at birth if
they're born abroad to two American parents or one American parent who
has lived in the US after the age of 14, or if born abroad to unwed
mother who has lived in the US for one uninterrupted year.
• Two other ways to obtain citizenship: must be used before kids
are 18 and assume they have at least one American citizen parent and
child must be in physical and legal custody of both parents. Timing is
uncertain. First way is called facilitated naturalization (law passed in
1990s), which allows kid to get citizenship if American grandparent had
lived for at least 5 years in the US after age 14. Must apply to USCIS
office in the US, provide required documentation, prove grandparent
fulfills requirements, get tourist visa, brief interview/meeting, and
then go to the US. Second way is via immigrant visa from local
consulate. Nowadays, if you go to a consulate, you need to go though
USCIS. Takes months and costs hundreds of dollars. Very hard to get
reliable information. Start early and be prepared for lots of delays.
This method is becoming more complicated, onerous and time consuming.
Can be done, but requires patience.
• If you don't do either these methods, your child is in the same
situation as a foreigner if he/she wants to immigrate to the US at the
age of 18 and must apply for a visa. If you, the parent, fulfill the
residency requirement and you don't ask for a passport for your child,
your child could still be required to file taxes.
• How to prove residence in the US? Use third party sources:
College transcript, pay slip, family membership at the local country
club has worked. Must have credible documentation.
• Should
you try to get citizenship for your children? Until recently, people
were largely unaware of tax obligations and thought more about
advantages of getting citizenship: can travel to the US easily, can work
there, get scholarships to study. Disadvantages: military service (no
draft, but still something to think about), and taxes.
• You can renounce your American citizenship at age 18 fairly
easily. Something to consider if you're certain of where your kids are
going to spend their lives.
• Kathleen encouraged AWG to
cultivate the local consulate officers in Marseille and establish a
rapport to facilitate relationships. She also advised sending any
problems to AARO. AARO can take that info to the State Dept and
advocate.
IV. Tim Ramier,
Estate Planning. (See Tim’s handout: Surviving
Death in France as a U.S. Citizen and Estate Planning in a Rapidly
Changing Franco-American World for more detailed information.)
• The State Dept has a duty to help overseas Americans. They're
starting to close down services all over the world, so contact the State
Dept to make an effort to keep our administrators in DC aware of our
issues. State Dept knows there are 8 million Americans living abroad but
no voice in DC.
• Estate planning. As an American citizen, your estate is
taxable. Because you're a French resident, all your worldwide assets are
taxable. First piece of advice: prepare. Start by taking an inventory
of your assets, where they are, and create a file for those who'll come
after you. The US isn’t concerned about who you're going to give your
assets to, they just want to know how big your pie is and want a slice.
If your estate doesn't exceed a certain threshold (currently
$5,350,000), you don't owe anything to the US. Make sure your assets
are easily transferable to designated heirs. Bank will require you to
prove you've filed the required papers with the US. You can leave your
money to whoever you want.
• The French have a different system. The French system decides
who will inherit from you (children and spouse). 60% of estate goes to
French govt if you don't have family members to inherit from you. Tim
recommends making a will. Designate an executor to administer and
manage your assets. Deposit a will where your US bank is located. If you
don't do a will, you have to prove who inherits and the procedure
becomes more administrative. Much easier if you have a valid will that
can be probated in the US. If you are beneficiary of a trust fund, you
have to declare it to the French or the trust will be taxed by the
French government.
• Advice: Draft a will both for the US assets and French assets
or a US will for anything you have outside of France. If you don't have
any children and are married or have a civil union, anything you leave
to your spouse won't be taxed. Children still have to pay tax above
100,000€ deduction. As a US citizen, you can do will in France or in US
as there is a treaty between the two countries. Or you can do a French
holographic will in the French civil code. Handwritten, signed and
dated and even written in English.
• In case of becoming incapacitated: the US has trouble
recognizing French tuteur. Try to give power of attorney to someone.
• Contrat de mariage. If you were married in France, you inherit
communal property. There's a presumption that everything in your
marriage is community. Even if one spouse brought a lot more in assets,
and you're under community property, you only declare half of assets.
• Answer to question 11 (see list of questions distributed to
participants). If you have a non-US spouse, the US only allows the same
amount as the exclusionary amount. You can leave your $5,350,000 to
your spouse.
• Question 12. You have to probate. In the US, we consider the
estate as an entity. French law considers the estate as a void.
Inquire with your US bank if they'll respect the pay on death form. You
can fill it out and file it with your bank. It's a beneficiary
clause. The beneficiary should be able to demonstrate with a death
certificate. Send French death certificate to consulate to get it
certified and recognize death of American citizen. There have been
recent cases of US banks refusing or blocking account because person
lives abroad. Bank might go to the IRS to make sure no tax due on
account. Do TOD/POD / joint account document, but no guarantee survivor
will be able to access the money without jumping through hoops. A Will
will facilitate transfer of funds. French notaires are quasi govt
officials.
• Question 13. If you're receiving a retirement from France,
only France gets to tax it. Same with the US, only the US gets to tax
it if it's from the US. Different regimes for each country. Technical
issue.
• Lucy reminded us that AARO is finalizing a survey specifically
on any problems you've had with your bank in France or the US as DC has
asked for concrete statistics. Survey will be on AARO website soon.
Please respond and share with other members of expat community. Please
provide specific facts.
IV. John Fredenberger,
Taxes. (See John’s handout for more detailed information.)
• When you get your French tax form, question on page 2 about who
has to file. The French instruction this year says everyone has to file
an income tax return for 2013 regardless of whether you had any income
or any tax due if you're domiciled in France. Physical presence for 183
days, and 3 other rules.
• NIIT. (Net Investment Income Tax) If you have income over
certain amounts, must pay 3.8% to help fund health care in the US. Even
if you live and work abroad, you're required to file. See the case of
George Friendly on John's handout.
• FBAR. (Foreign Bank Account Report) Began in 1970. Any American
citizen with more than $10,000 liquidity outside the US has to report.
If you’ve had an aggregate balance of 7000€ in your account at any time
over the past year, you must report. AARO is putting pressure on US
congress to raise minimum filing requirement. The response is
lukewarm. Foreign spouse can file with American spouse as married
filing jointly or can file as married filing separately. Many foreign
spouses don’t want to file with American spouse. Must report joint
account balance if over 7000€ threshold to US. Do FBAR by
June 30th.
• FATCA. (Foreign Account Tax Compliant Act) Federal Penalty for not filing: 50% of maximum balance or $100,000.
• Way to avoid: Under communauté universelle, doesn't matter who's
name is on the account because all your assets are considered both of
yours
• Minimum income threshold $20,000 for married filing jointly.
Threshold for married filing separately: $3,900. Threshold for a single
person: $10,000. Decide if you want to file jointly or married filing
separately.
• John's advice: It's easy to file, comply, and get back into the
system now. This is the ideal time because there are budget cutbacks
and fewer employees at the IRS. They don’t have the staff or budget to
go after you (145,000,000 tax returns filed for 2012 in the US.) The
US wants citizens abroad to comply. The IRS has under 10% compliance
rate of 8,000,000 American expats. If you’re out of the system, panel
advises: File tax return for 2013 and that should be sufficient.
• No link at the present time between passport renewal and tax
returns. About a year and a half ago, the State Dept put on the website
instructions that they would and could share info with other
departments. Info on the passport renewal form can go to the IRS.
• AARO has a “friend” at the IRS. Nina Olson is a taxpayer
advocate who defends US citizens at She works for fair fax treatment for
US citizens. Staff of 130 to handle our issues.
• If in 2012 you earned less than $97000 you will not be taxed. You still have to file.
• You can deduct a habitation tax. And property tax.
•
Assurance vie. Constant dispute between US and France. A real problem
about how to treat it. The IRS doesn't recognize it as a tax deferred
product. (Not like a 401K from the US point of view.) If you take a
distribution out of it, that's where the possible tax incident occurs.
It's a foreign account, should be declared if the maximum balance is
over 7000€. (Must convert to dollars. Last year, 1€ = $0.783.) Get
current figure from IRS website.
• IRS has now created tax topic index on its website, and very
useful with country specific information. Download and read tax guide
from IRS website. Must be filed online. First 5 pages provide basic
information.
• French banks have already started reporting US citizens' bank
accounts to US govt. Panel raised question about our security, as third
party is being hired to obtain this information from French banks and
this info could be hacked / used for malicious purposes.
Respectfully submitted,
Noel Gaussens
Secretary.